This was the title for my interview with the Jordan Business magazine in its May edition. Unfortunately the text is not accessible on their homepage but below you will find a rough cut of the interview.
I think Jordan Business wanted to make the interview with me because I wrote them a letter about a previous article that in my opinion didn’t reflect the full story behind the article. That Jordan Business actually responded by offering me the opportunity to talk about the Jordanian-Danish relations and some of the major issues we are facing is a sign of a professional attitude towards journalism that allows different points of view to be voiced. It was an offer that could not be refused. It is a pretty long text, and I am afraid that this clip does not reflect the very beautiful layout of the magazine and it’s cover page.
EYE ON DIPLOMACY
A Tale Of Two Kingdoms
It hasn’t been an easy start to Denmark’s first-ever mission to Jordan. In an exclusive interview with Jordan Business, Denmark’s Ambassador HE Thomas Lund-Sørensen, discusses the main areas of cooperation between the two kingdoms.
As one of the newest ambassadors to Jordan, Thomas Fouad Lund-Sørensen is having to find his feet very quickly - charged with a lot more than the regular round of diplomacy. His is a burden that many would shy away from: increasing trade between the two small kingdoms is quite a tall order, especially given at least some remnants of negative feeling still simmering across the region’s surface.
However, if his professional history, which dates back to 1990, is anything to go by, then his preparedness for the task at hand is undoubted. In an exclusive interview with Jordan Business, the Danish emissary describes what it’s like starting up Denmark’s mission in Jordan and what challenges lie ahead in the future.
JB; Denmark only recently opened its embassy in Jordan, with the mission of “intensifying the al ready strong and amicable relations between the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Kingdom of Denmark.” As the first Danish emissary to Jordan, what do you perceive as the main milestones to be achieved during your tenure?
TS: This year, the Kingdoms of Jordan and Denmark both celebrate their 50th anniversary of diplomatic ties. The opening up of a new embassy in Amman is a clear signal from the Danish side of a wish to further deepen our relations. Den mark and Jordan resemble each other in many ways. Both are kingdoms. They have roughly the same size of population and are of a rather limited geographical area. None of the two countries are particularly endowed with natural resources. However, we both share the same vision of peace and prosperity, and both countries strive to become leaders within the new increasingly globalized economy. We both do that by investing in the only lasting resource that we have – our citizens and their ability to trade, produce, invent and provide services.
The embassy’s staff and I have our work cut out. First and foremost on the agenda is, of course, to get this new embassy up and running. I believe this mission has been successful in recruiting a number of extremely well-qualified Jordanians. We are also continuously working on establishing a well-functioning network. To this end, and apart from the usual diplomatic network of government, politicians and officials, we have tried to reach out to other less formal circles, including bloggers, journalists, civil society organizations, business people and youth groups. This has been very rewarding as we try to better understand Jordanian society. The embassy is also focusing on new areas of cooperation that can benefit both countries. One obvious area is in the field of renewable energy, where Denmark is one of the world leaders and where Jordan has an apparent political, economical and security interest.
Another area that we focus on is the absurdly small volume of trade between our two countries. Jordan’s annual exports to Denmark are a mere $1 million a year, while Danish exports to Jordan amounts to only about $50 million. If the embassy succeeds in making a positive difference on this issue, I would consider it a major milestone.
JB: Not long after your appointment, you addressed, in an article entitled “Food Safety is Politics,” the food-poisoning crisis that besieged specific areas in Jordan to wards the latter part of 2007. You also mentioned that the European Commission has financed a twinning project between the Jordanian Food and Drug Administration GFDA) and its Danish and Latvian counterparts. What has the project entailed, and what are some of the tangible benefits and transferable skills that have transpired from that cooperative initiative?
TS: One of the first issues I got involved with in Jordan was the question of food safety. For the last three years, the Danish Food Agency has been working closely with its Jordanian counterpart, the JFDA, in order to increase its capacity to tackle food safety issues and better prepare it for European Union (EU) Certification. This will eventually make it easier for Jordanian producers to ex port to the EU, and most likely to other regions, as well. Another outcome has been the drafting of the first Jordanian food law, which ensures that everybody knows who is responsible for what when it corries to food safety.
What I really appreciate with this kind of cooperation is its twinning element; two organizations from Denmark and Jordan exchanged ideas and experiences around a common vision, which in this case was increased food safety. The twinning element focused on the transfer of professional knowledge, procedures and some hardware, but there is also a dialogue going on between people and cultures. That will invariably increase the understanding between those involved. In this particular case, the project was so successful that it not only got the highest marks from the EU commission, but it also gained so much popularity with in the Danish Food Agency that there was an internal competition among its employees to become part of the cooperation with their Jordanian colleagues. On top of this, the project is important because it is relevant to all Jordanian citizens who – like their Danish opposite numbers – demand and expect good and safe food.
To sum up, this project had the three elements necessary for a successful outcome. It was relevant to the Jordanian citizen and the Jordanian economy; it was professionally important and produced concrete, tangible results; and it also increased the cultural and personal understanding be tween people and the organizations actually involved in the project.
JB: Denmark has been very active in supporting initiatives geared towards increasing cross-cultural and inter-religious dialogue and cooperation. Noteworthy is the Danish Youth Council, which organized a meeting in Istanbul in 2007, bringing together 110 youth politicians from both Denmark and the Middle East. Other initiatives, supported by the government and other private institutions in Denmark, have also taken place. This especially includes the “Coexistence of Civilization” – an initiative chaired by Jordan’s Prince Hassan bin Talal. Can you explain why these projects are placed so highly on the agenda?
TS: Since 2003, Denmark has been actively involved in an increasing number of projects focused on the Arab world. This takes place within the “Partnership for Progress and Reform” in which Jordan is a participant. The Jordanian-Danish projects are dialogue-oriented and, as with the JFDA project, they evolve around specific topics of interest to both countries. The two projects that have been signed most recently aim to extend the network of Family Protection Department shelters for abused children as well as to prevent torture and maltreatment in prisons. Other projects include training journalists in the techniques of investigative reporting, cooperation on children’s programs for television, the establishment of a Jordanian ombudsman institution, a Danish-Jordanian Youth centre, in addition to initiatives aimed at the empowerment of women in the labor market as well as at women’s rights issues. All these projects are based on cooperation between a Danish partner – often a non-government organization (NGO) – and a number of Jordanian partners, which most often include Jordanian NGOs and governmental institutions.
On top of these projects, the Danish government has, for a long time, been engaged in international dialogue activities within the Alliance of Civilizations, the Anna Lindh Foundation and various other organisations and institutions. As a long time member of the European Union and an active participant in the Barcelona process, Denmark also par takes, on a regular basis, in meetings ‘With Arab countries on a wide range of different issues related to the cooperation between the EU and the Arab world. There are also extensive bilateral contacts between Denmark and the Arab world on the ministerial level.
All these projects and exchanges serve the same ultimate goal – to enhance the understanding between people and cultures and to increase the acceptance about our different ways of life in order to avoid misunderstanding and prejudices. So projects that initially might seem rather small, locally-bound and closely focused do contribute to the same higher goal. That is why all these initiatives are so important and why we, on the Danish side, put so much emphasis on their success and on our constant readiness for dialogue.
JB: Denmark has been one of the very few countries that has responded, both relatively swiftly and tangibly, to the Iraqi refugee crisis. Among the donors supporting humanitarian relief efforts, it is noted that Denmark is the largest per capita donor, with just over $26 million contributed to the plight of Iraqis within Iraq and in neighbouring countries (including Jordan). At the same time, Denmark, together with Sweden, has taken in the largest number of Iraqi refugees. What, in your opinion, must the international community set its sights on to significantly alleviate this humanitarian calamity?
TS: First of all, I would like to express Denmark’s, as well as my own appreciation, for Jordan’s generous attitude towards refugees generally over the past half century, and for the tremendous effort that the Kingdom is putting forth with the current inflow of Iraqis to Jordan. The Danish minister for development cooperation paid a visit to Jordan in late February, where she held talks with Jordanian ministers on exactly this issue, and in the process, met with refugees and organizations assisting them. This has always been a key driving force behind Danish development-based aid and our foreign policy. This philosophy will continue to guide our policy and, as afore mentioned, Denmark is one of the major donors in the efforts to help refugees and support their host countries.
That being said, one of the actual challenges facing Iraqi refugees, Jordan and the international donor community is their educational and economical situation. In order for an entire generation not to lose out on a sustainable future, it is of the utmost importance that both Iraqi and Jordanian children continue to receive proper education while living in Jordan. At the same time, as subsidies are dismantled and prices go up, the refugees are running out of money and are facing more difficult economic situations than in previous years. These issues are high on the agenda of the international donor community; including the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), and they will constitute some of the priorities for 2008. What we all set our sights on, and actively work towards, is that the refugees will be able to return in safety to their home country.
JB: The second reprinting of the cartoons, which re-offended millions of Muslims the world over, has left many questioning whether any justifiable reason exists to what many believe is a lack of journalistic integrity, sensitivity and humanism. You have noted in a letter sent to Jordan Business that the reprinting of the cartoons “took place against the background of an assassination plan to kill the cartoonist,” adding that “according to most of the Danish newspapers, the cartoon was reprinted in order to document why this group of persons wanted to kill the man behind the cartoon.” With such a notorious topic at the nexus of this debate, do you think reprinting the cartoons was absolutely essential in reporting the foiled assassination attempt?
TS: The question that you posed goes straight to the heart of the matter. As a government representative, I will emphasize what the Danish prime minister has said time and again, and I quote: “I condemn any expression, action or indication that attempts to demonise people on the basis of their religion or ethnic back ground.” In another statement, the prime minister said that he personally would never have chosen to depict religious symbols in this way.
However, the point is that no Danish editor-in-chief would ask the prime minister or the government what content to include within any newspaper. This is solely the responsibility of the editor. Otherwise, it could be considered an attempt at censorship. Looking into the Danish Constitution, Article 77 states that “any person shall be entitled to publish his thoughts in printing, in writing, and in speech, provided that he may be held answerable in a court of justice. Censorship and other preventive measures shall never again be introduced.” Article 77 is thus a clear example of a constitutional right of freedom of speech, with the explicit limitation that anyone may be held answerable in court.
Thus, as a government representative answering the question as to whether or not it was essential to reprint the cartoon in relation to the assassination plan, the answer is that the editors-in-chief to a large majority thought so and did so accordingly. What opinion the government had on this issue is, in this respect, of less importance since the government has neither a legal basis nor preventive means to interfere in editors’ choices prior to the publication. In addition, the official Jordanian point of view on the cartoon was well known before the republication, as was the Danish point of view, as I have just explained.
Not everybody agreed with the decision of the editors. According to an opinion poll that was carried out sometime after the reprint, a majority of Danes found the reprinting unjustified, which, as re ported in Danish newspapers, was a surprise to some of the editors.
JB: Many observers of all back grounds have noted that while the debate of “freedom of speech” is a human right in itself, it, as everything else, must have limits. In fact, many have pointed that had the images depicted the Holocaust or the killings of Armenians in Turkey, serious measures would have been taken to stop their re-printing. What are your thoughts on this matter?
TS: From my point of view, I see things differently. The Danish Constitution does not work with double standards. The abolishment of preventive censorship gave every citizen a constitutional right to express their opinion, however question able that opinion might seem. There is, to my knowledge, no exception to that rule in Denmark. As I said before, there are indeed limits to the freedom of speech since the author can be held answerable in court for his publication. This is the way that we understand an essential part of our democracy. Just as an example of the separation between the government and the press, there exist no government owned newspapers in Denmark.
JB: Given the losses sustained by Danish corporations due to what many have noted as the “single biggest boycott in history,” how damaging, economically or otherwise, do you believe the boycott, led by the “Messengers of Allah Unite Us” campaign will be to Danish-Jordanian relations? Are Danish policy makers worried over the adverse effects this and other boycott campaigns may have on Danish trade with countries in the Middle East?
TS: Danish policymakers are aware of the political ramifications of a campaign that, at one point in time, did seem to be more intense in Jordan than elsewhere in the region. The media campaign has distorted the image of Denmark to, in my opinion, an unreasonable degree. On the other hand, it is for the editors in Jordan to choose what to print even if we, in Den mark, don’t like what they print. It is, of course, also up to the parliament to debate what they deem as the most important is sues, politically. As I started out by saying, the new embassy has its work cut out for it for some time to come, mainly with our focus on what we call public diplomacy.
Working on international trade issues throughout my career, I have a sincere dislike for boycotts. Trade and tourism are the most important factors in creating beneficial relations, peaceful ties and prosperity between people and countries. Cutting away trade is in many respects harmful to development, especially if you are a country that lives off trade as Denmark and many other small, open economies do.
First and foremost, a number of hard working Jordanian importers of Danish products have been harmed by the boycott. Ironically, they are probably just as hurt by the cartoons’ reprint than any other Jordanian citizen, but on top of that they and their employees suffer economically. In reality, along with Danish exporters, these Jordanian importers have absolutely nothing to do with the reprint and have no influence on the decision. On the other hand, consumers the world over are acting politically every day. It is a phenomenon that business people are getting accustomed to and which they take into consideration when planning new investments. No country is safe from being exposed to a boycott, but some are less vulnerable than others.
In fact, as many in this part of the world and Europe will attest to, the only way to overcome misunderstandings and misconceptions about each other is through an intensified dialogue, where we learn to understand and accept our similarities and differences. You can really question whether boycotts – as opposed to dialogue – are helpful in achieving that goal.
No one today knows what costs the boycott has levied on Danish companies, or Jordanian importers. It depends on many factors. However, as I said in the beginning, Danish exports to Jordan are low, only at about $50 million a year. On a larger scale, the total Danish exports to the 57 members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) are about 3% of our total global exports.
JB: The continuing downward spiral of the US dollar, along with high rates of inflation and the lifting of oil subsidies, make for dire economic circumstances for the aver age Jordanian citizen. In contrast to Denmark, which arguably has the world’s most developed welfare safety net, a genuine welfare state in Jordan is, as of yet, in a challises this despite recent announcements by the government of providing economic assistance to those in financial need. Can Denmark effectively contribute to the strengthening of Jordan’s safety net by passing on expertise or otherwise?
TS: While it is true that the Danish welfare state is held in high esteem by many, it is also true that this comes at the price of having the highest tax levels in the world. The interesting thing is that although many complain about taxes, only a few will give up some of the basic safety net features in order to lower them.
Every citizen in Denmark, regardless of his origin, is covered by the social security that provides free medical services for all, pensions for people unable to retain a job or those on disability. Educational institutions, including high schools and universities, are free, while schools for vocational training are mostly free. More over, everybody is assured of an old-age pension. Corruption is, in all practical purposes, non-existent. I could go on. If I should point to two different areas based on my rather short experience in Jordan where Denmark has something to offer, it would be in the area of vocational training and – now I will be really unpopular – taxes.
Our professional associations are very strong in vocational training and courses. This training is in high demand and participation is considered essential to a large part of the Danish workforce. What is also important is to consider that having a job as a carpenter, plumber, painter and mechanic is something really valuable. These jobs are mostly well paid and the skill sets are in such high demand that it is often difficult to fix an appointment. Better training and a revalorization of these job categories in Jordan are probably things that could be looked into in cooperation with Danish partners. Not everybody has to become a lawyer or a doctor.
Since the Danish welfare state is funded by taxes, we have become world champions in taxation. Our tax system is highly efficient and progressive towards the higher income brackets. Most income tax is taken from the source electronically, without the interference of the taxpayer. Tax evasion is extremely difficult, and people in general feel they get value and service for their tax money. So I guess that there is some thing to be inspired by from the Danish taxing system for many countries.
JB: Returns from hi-tech agriculture form a significant component of Denmark’s market economy. Are there any areas of cooperation between Denmark and Jordan that can be pursued in this regard?
TS: Agriculture as such is no longer a very important part of the Danish economy, even though this can change again in light of the rapid global in crease in demand for food. We are still very strong when it comes to industrial products related to the agro-food sector. Every year, there is a huge fair called Agromek in Denmark – and al most every year a number of Jordanian business people attend the event. I can only encourage more Jordanians to participate next year.
With regard to cooperation between our two countries, I am happy to mention a small agricultural project that Denmark has been running for a number of years. It involves a number of Danish experts who, together with Jordanian and other neighbouring farmers and experts, exchange best practices and valuable knowledge on farming under somewhat difficult agricultural conditions.
JB: Figures show that the consumption of renewable energy in Denmark grew by 5% between 2006 and 2007. Statistics also show that Denmark generates around 20% of its electricity supply from wind energy. Given Jordan’s dependence on increasingly expensive imported oil, as well as the absolute need to develop alternative sources of energy, is renewable energy an area of in which Denmark can aid in Jordan’s development?
TS: This is the single most important topic the embassy has been working on since September 2007. Soon, the world’s attention will focus on Denmark when an important UN conference on global climate change will be held in Copenhagen towards the end of next year. The aim of the conference is to agree on a new ambitious successor agreement to the Kyoto Protocol. Energy and climate change go hand in hand. Jordan and Denmark have a lot in common in this field. Jordan today is facing the same challenges on energy as Denmark did in the early 1970s. As Jordan today suffers from dependence on high imported oil prices, so did Denmark at that time. However, successive Danish governments didn’t sit idle. With different initiatives, including a mix of the stick and carrot within the energy conservation sector, the renew able energy sector, the electricity sector and within the heating sector, Denmark has managed to keep its energy consumption level at 0% growth compared to 25 years ago. In other words, we consume the same amount of energy today as we did in 1980. Does that mean that there was no economic growth in Den mark during the last 25 years? No, the Danish economy grew by 70% during the same time span. So we broke the dogma of growth equals energy, which, apart from the positive economic effect, is also helpful to the environment and the climate.
I strongly believe that Jordan can be inspired by many of the initiatives that we have undertaken in Denmark to tackle our own energy challenges, and the embassy is actively engaged in this discussion with our partners in Jordan .•
Posted by Thomas Lund-Sørensen
Posted by Thomas Lund-Sørensen
Posted by Thomas Lund-Sørensen